We all love the nested tags. But in some cases there are other ways to achieve a better user experience.
To show what i mean i have put together all my skills to create this mockup:
Now just imagine in the bottom part of the second pane some links to weekly, monthly and yearly review notes and: et voila! Or would it be better to show a list of notes belonging to the selected month?
Personally, I hope a calendar view never makes its way into Bear. I don’t understand the appeal nor the use case of daily notes (if you have block linking, then maybe). But for people who want it, I think this functionality is already available through tags.
It is not only or not necessarily about the calendar view that you can see in pkm apps. However, since bear has implemented backlinks i do not know why it shouldn’t work.
The main point is that it is more convenient than using nested tags for a calendar view: a note is quickly created, you have a better overview about which days are created as not and probably some features more about calendar are possible. I am sure that people who use a daily journal could find that more attractive
Personally, with paper, I use two notebooks - one for daily miscellaneous notes, and one for notes about all my projects that I have ongoing. Having the calendar view-style notes would allow me to digitise those notes like for like.
I don’t disagree with the tag system per se. But it definitely clutters up the tag-space, and also brings in extra friction when trying to use daily notes. This is especially the case if we want to keep an eye on the actual tag-space while switching between different days.
Especially now that we have backlinking, I hope it is obvious that we are able to link tasks to daily notes, and be able to see backlinks to notes that are actionable on any day. Thus the ability to target a task at a certain day, and to have a frictionless calendar interface, to see ahead or behind, is actually super helpful.
In Bear 1 we have a dedicated “todo”, and a dedicated “today” view. I see this as a very reasonable extension of both of those, and the feature would actually make Bear an even more compelling alternative to a lot of other apps out there.
I totally agree with KillerWhale. If you want daily notes switch to Agenda or Craft. Simplicity versus feature bloat.
Where do you see the bloat? Actually it would be just a remodelling of daily journal or daily notes driven currently by tags. With the result of more convenience: when it comes to dates a calendar view is more common and feasible than a tree view. The only reason in my eyes that speaks against a dedicated calendar view is that the title of the daily notes would have to be pregiven, fixed and not changeable. That is obvious but doesn‘t fit to what is called a bearish editor.
While nested tags are far superior in comparison to the separation of folders and simple tags there are also areas in organization that still fits better and offer a better user experience
This calendar view is, at best, is a tab that someone never has to click on, and krssno has already made a wonderful point about the ease of access to these timed notes.
Not to be argumentative, but just trying to understand the mild reticence: if a built-in calendar tag is considered bloat, doesn’t that same logic mean we strictly also do not need todo, or today views either? Since people who require those functions are just as easily served by creating their own tags, and extended tag trees.
I have to withdraw my objektion. I do not think that it really speaks against the calendar view. Currently a daily note or a note meant as daily journal is not defined by its title like in other tools (obsidian) but by a tag. And the calendar view i suggested could keep the title editable for whatever the user thinks it is the right title for his daily note. The connection could be hold by the view itself. If such a daily note is tagged it appears surely also in the tag tree.
Indeed is about ease of access and user experience. And what is more obvious for managing calendar/date related notes than a calendar view?
Except todos (in reality checkboxes) are part of the extended Markdown syntax that Bear relies on. Like tables, which we will get. The today view is based on each note’s metadata. This does not add bloat; it’s based on the fundamental Markdown feature set. Wiki links stretch that definition a little (even though they’re just an internal link in the end) and again, backlinks are just a collection of data that is already accessible through those links (linking being part of the Markdown syntax).
Bear builds as little as possible on top of Markdown and the basic premise of text documents that can have embeds. It provides on top of that constraint the most elegant UX on the market.
By contrast, a calendar view does not fit this view, which is why I argue against it being a good fit for Bear. It would only work with having specific date formats in tags to be recognized by the calendar and be integrated there. And / or it would add all notes created in a given day, which promises to be an unusable mess for many users.
This is going too far as to what the intentions of Markdown were, which were to replicate HTML formatting easily, and to which Bear adheres quite conservatively.
I can respect this, I do not think we are actually messing with text documents that can have embeds, we merely want to be a little lazy such that we are able to find text documents a little bit easier. After all, if I want pure MD with no bloat at all, why can’t I just VSCode an open folder and just go ham with search? (Which, to be fair, I am using for some parts of my work, hahaha.)
To further make sure I understand, the today view based on a note’s metadata is okay, but a calendar view which of my notes, and generating a daily note is not because the process itself is outside of the MD specs?
So from a different perspective, would a calendar that simply prompted a “Today”-view for an arbitrary past date also be outside of this specification? i.e. Would it be considered bloat to add a UI element where I click a certain date to see every note that was last edited at a different date, e.g. 2022-12-30?
I completely agree that Bear provides the most elegant UX on the market, and it is the most beautiful way to organise my notes! And after all, we already have the time stamps in the metadata, why do we have to force the user to build an additional system when we could utilise that?
I wonder if it will be good enough if we are not able to generate a note by clicking the date, but be merely a tool that shows all notes created on that day, being a visual navigation tool. Perhaps modified as well, or if wanted make options. This would basically be Today tab replaced with default opening always be today. If this ever gets built, I hope it is hidden under the more tab, where the Today is currently at.
But on the other hand, I am quite sure I won’t be using this feature, and am worried people would want graph view etc. and complain why add one but not the other, and bloat begins.
If you see the discontent regarding the division between linked / unlinked mentions in the backlinks discussion, I can almost guarantee that a calendar view based on note metadata will muddle things further. There will be notes people want in the calendar, and notes they don’t because they aren’t part of journals or true “daily notes” (as to what @Eleanor said). And then how do you differentiate them?
Which is why the safest bet to generate a calendar view would be to build upon tag data, but how would you format it to avoid collisions and mixups? People editing tags without causing issues? What format would you use? There’s always going to be users wanting different formatting, and so on.
Which is why myself and others answer to this FR: this feature can be built already using the systems in place with extreme flexibility (if you want daily, weekly, monthly notes, whatever), and going further than that is probably outside of Bear’s scope because having a pretty calendar is complicated to make elegant and non-intrusive for a rather divisive feature. (Personally, I think Craft jumped the shark the day they pursued daily notes instead of the PKM systems they had started building.)
You want daily notes, you can have them already tagging them with something like
I absolutely cannot follow. The markdown notes themselves for day notes are not affected at all. A calendar view is a matter of HOW these notes are organized. With the same logic you can say that same about tags and the tag tree. They are also nothing else than something on top.
An on regard to elegance: what is more elegant than a simple calendar view then it comes to organising date related notes? Actually it would be no more than a calendar entry in left sidebar like it is when you use tags (maybe just another place, f.e. above the „notes“ entry at the very top of left sidebar). The only difference is: you don‘t browse tags in left sidebar to get a list of notes in second pane but the second pane contains no more and less than the calendar view.
That is totally a different feature
In a calendar view there is no room for questions what a real daily is or not. There is just one note for each day
However, I have to think about what @KillerWhale (thanks for your objection!) said: it indeed can be that a calendar view would start an avalanche. And i have to think about if my requested feature would not lead to list of flexibility. I am even sure that latter is the case.
See my above posts. Please explain what the date logic would be for organizing notes chronologically. Only some in some tags? Its metadata itself? Creation date? I would venture there are several opinions on this on these forums alone.
Tags allow everyone to replicate this however they like. Have a daily note. Have notes tagged on a given date. Nothing at all. Whatever you want.
All other Bear features are out of the way until you need or want them: tags, wiki links etc.
A calendar would not follow that logic (disabling it with a option goes counter to Bear’s simplicity), while there are already several users in that thread that have expressed their hope that it can remain out of the way if it ever happens.
I reiterate: a calendar is a hornet’s nest to implement, while the functionality to replicate time stamped notes is already there even in Bear 1.
There are entire apps designed around the feature of time stamped notes (Agenda, Noteplan). If this is central to your workflow, I would encourage you to use the apps that are designed around that feature.
As I have written in my previous post: the fear about lost of flexibility is legitimate. Write one post more and I am completely persuaded
One post more!
(Sorry, just wanted to lighten the mood )
I took the coffe break as opportunity to think a while. Actually the only and one problem (I and probably others) at replicating daily notes is that you need the date inside the title whereas inside bear for organising dates a tag is needed. Absurdly enough it was me who gave a tip a few weeks ago how to to create a wiki link from a tag. When at home I will have to test it to see how autocompleting for such tags in title will work. It didn‘t come to my mind because in my tip I was thinking from tags to links and here in this case I had to think from links to tags (what an English, sorry! ). It was a different scenario
In the meantime I think killerwhales arguments are valid. To replicate daily notes just use the tag, f.e. #daily note/2023/01/16 as title of your daily note. I think the autocompleting inside writing of wiki links should work. An possible flaw could be that the notes list from the tags would contain just one single note.
Nevertheless I love the beauty of calendar views
I have rereaden your post. What you like to have is a calendar view that shows up notes by last modified or created. That has nothing to do wir the concept of daily notes known from other tools or with a daily journal. In these concepts the date is the topic and not an attribute of the note
I’m looking forward to seeing how your experiments go!
vis-a-vis the “today”-view I did mildly hijack the calendar with a second idea, only meant to try to understand the underlying fundamental design philosophies, my apologies!
I can respect that completely! I can even use a combination of #daily and #year/month/day in the title to replicate a more complicated behaviour.
I would rather use #daily/year/month/day. Two tags in the title don’t make sense and wouldn’t work
Actually it is not an experiment but a solution. The tag based calendar tree holds different kind of notes: the normal notes tagged by #year/month/day in text body and daily notes with #year/month/day in the title. To the latter kind of notes you can link by [[#year/month/day]]. That’s all! And the linking to daily notes works exactly like in obsidian. Once linking daily notes this way, you can open them and show their backlinks